Curse

RedStar · Nov 29, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Of course the BMP was a marketing strategy and not really a gift to the players. However there was a way to not buy it directly : buy EotN and get it for free.

I find the costumes expensive, so I doubt I'll buy any.

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transmutation stones or whatever else they shovel out are looking to be far worse - would you pay real world cash to move insignias from armour onto another armour?

This is a concerning GW2. The armor system isn't the same as in GW1, it's more like other games where you don't have insignias or runes.
I don't see why so many players have a problem with those stones : it's purely aesthetic...it allows you to keep an armor you find cool with the stats of another armor you think are good...how gamebreaking... Compared to most games that have a cash shop, I'm happy they are keeping to aesthetic only items.

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Umm let's see. Within this past year we have had a skill update basically every single month.

I wouldn't consider changing less than 5 skills to be a skill update.

SpyderArachnid · Nov 29, 2010, 08:15 PM // 20:15

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Originally Posted by lemming

There's been far less than that, and only one of them (November 2010) was what anyone qualified would consider decent.

Well why not get a job at Anet since you know exactly what skills are considered "decent" to be fixed. Sorry that these skill updates we have had this year, don't meet your expectations, and are therefore, not worth it. But are we getting skill updates? Yes. Are they the exact skills you want to be updated? No, but we are getting skill updates nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by RedStar

I wouldn't consider changing less than 5 skills to be a skill update.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...dates/20101112
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...dates/20100521
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...dates/20100225
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...dates/20100128

Oh look. More than five skills changed four times just this year alone. That's not counting all the minor skill changes each month that they did as well.

Everyone has their own idea of what would be a decent skill update. Just because these are not the exact skills that you want updated, doesn't mean that they are worthless. That's being selfish and only thinking for yourself if you think Anet should only fix what you want fixed and nothing else. Anet is working on what they believe needs to be worked on.

Lanier · Nov 29, 2010, 08:20 PM // 20:20

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Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Umm let's see. Within this past year we have had a skill update basically every single month.

We had one in february, one in may, and then we kinda had one in november, though it only changed a few skills. Thats definitely not every single month. I dont think anyone here (except you) considers 1 or 2 skills tweaked to be a "skill update".

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Originally Posted by lemming

There's been far less than that, and only one of them (November 2010) was what anyone qualified would consider decent.

Ah... so skill updates are only "decent" if they are PvE oriented? Oh, and you're distinctly qualified to know what a "decent" skill update is? Well gee, thanks for clearing that up!

EDIT: looks like i forgot about the january update. Still, that doesnt change the fact that after February, skill updates kinda fell out. It was 3 months before the may update and then 6 months before the most recent (and also the smallest) update.

*lemming* · Nov 29, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

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Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Well why not get a job at Anet since you know exactly what skills are considered "decent" to be fixed. Sorry that these skill updates we have had this year, don't meet your expectations, and are therefore, not worth it. But are we getting skill updates? Yes. Are they the exact skills you want to be updated? No, but we are getting skill updates nonetheless.

Not everyone shares your casual attitude that updates only matter when they concern you. There's a bigger picture, you know.

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Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Everyone has their own idea of what would be a decent skill update. Just because these are not the exact skills that you want updated, doesn't mean that they are worthless. That's being selfish and only thinking for yourself if you think Anet should only fix what you want fixed and nothing else. Anet is working on what they believe needs to be worked on.

There's objective ways of measuring how much damage skill "balances" do to the metagame.

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Originally Posted by Lanier

Ah... so skill updates are only "decent" if they are PvE oriented? Oh, and you're distinctly qualified to know what a "decent" skill update is? Well gee, thanks for clearing that up!

They're decent if they address metagame problems without introducing bigger ones.

And yes, I'm an expert.

SpyderArachnid · Nov 29, 2010, 09:32 PM // 21:32

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Originally Posted by lemming

Not everyone shares your casual attitude that updates only matter when they concern you. There's a bigger picture, you know.

I never said they only matter when they concern me. That was you and several others that seems to be expressing that opinion, not me. Maybe you should take your own advice on the subject.

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Originally Posted by lemming

There's objective ways of measuring how much damage skill "balances" do to the metagame.

They're decent if they address metagame problems without introducing bigger ones.

And yes, I'm an expert.

Well we'll make sure to inform Anet that we have an elite expert on the forums that knows more than anyone else in Guild Wars and knows exactly what needs to be done to this game better than anyone else.

Some people may see these updates as worthless, while others are happy for these updates. Anet can't please everyone all the time, and when one person thinks they know exactly what everyone wants, that is just arrogant and conceded. Everyone wants different things and there is no one "expert" that knows everything.

RedStar · Nov 29, 2010, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Oh look, 5 skills updates in 10 months. That's not a skill update basically every single months. (Yes I'm being picky, but I don't like it when people over-exaggerate on things but don't explicitly say so).

I don't count those minor Mesmer skill updates that were done to try to "balance" four or five skills because of the May's update.

Concerning the "quality" of the updates : ANet is supposed to make the game better. That isn't necessarily the same as making people happy.
Let's take an example :

Ursan

. How many people loved it ? How many swore by it ? How many wrote on forums "I'll quit the day they nerf ursan" ? Does this mean ANet should have left it, a broken skill that allowed you to almost brainlessly breeze through any content, untouched ?

*lemming* · Nov 29, 2010, 11:33 PM // 23:33

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Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

I never said they only matter when they concern me. That was you and several others that seems to be expressing that opinion, not me. Maybe you should take your own advice on the subject.

I think I can safely speak for most GvGers.

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Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Well we'll make sure to inform Anet that we have an elite expert on the forums that knows more than anyone else in Guild Wars and knows exactly what needs to be done to this game better than anyone else.

They know already; don't worry.

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Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Some people may see these updates as worthless, while others are happy for these updates. Anet can't please everyone all the time, and when one person thinks they know exactly what everyone wants, that is just arrogant and conceded. Everyone wants different things and there is no one "expert" that knows everything.

But some people are more qualified than others.

Besides, if an update isn't pleasing its intended audience, what are you supposed to call it besides worthless?

Jeydra · Nov 30, 2010, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Lol lemming, what if I asked "should we bring back VoD" or "should we bring back Aegis"?

I think the community is more fractured than you make it out to be. Sure, there are some skills that almost everyone agrees is overpowered (such as pre-nerf Expert's Dexterity), but there are also skills that're much more controversial. WoH / Patient Spirit is one (see Dark's thread on QQ), Assassins are another, etc. I do agree with your last point however. For all its problems, the PvP / PvE split did allow updates to reach their intended audience. Get qualified players from both arenas to discuss and vote, that would be the most logical way forward.

Mia Clemons · Nov 30, 2010, 12:10 AM // 00:10

While i wholeheartedly agree that the more updates, the more i will play and enjoy the game, i highly doubt Anet will add more LiveTeam members to GW1. Anet isnt (entirely) stupid, they know that we, players, will want updates etc before GW2 comes out. Why do you think they released WiK, Wedding, etc stuff out? I guarantee there will be more updates before GW2 comes out, just a matter of time. They havent even released half of the professions for GW2.
Just be a little more patient.
If you're already 50-50 in HoM, i recommend you take the time to relax and make some money(if you dont already have it), so you can buy any new stuff that Anet releases between now and then.

/signed

*lemming* · Nov 30, 2010, 12:39 AM // 00:39

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Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol lemming, what if I asked "should we bring back VoD" or "should we bring back Aegis"?

I think the community is more fractured than you make it out to be. Sure, there are some skills that almost everyone agrees is overpowered (such as pre-nerf Expert's Dexterity), but there are also skills that're much more controversial.

True, but the community is pretty much unanimous in their opinion that the updates thus far this year have ranged from disappointing to destructive.

Lanier · Nov 30, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27

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Originally Posted by lemming

They're decent if they address metagame problems without introducing bigger ones.

And yes, I'm an expert.

I am extremely inclined to disagree with you simply because this is probably the most arrogant thing I have seen posted... ever. However, I'v got to agree with the basic point you're making. A decent update is one that addresses metagame problems, and this is what the mesmer one did (for PvE). It made mesmers useful. I can definitely see how from a pvp standpoint, it was a "bad" update, as it overpowered mesmers quite a bit, but honestly, 3/4 (or more) of the gw population would disagree with you. The vast majority of the players are PvEers, and out of those that do PvP, I was under the impression that not many of them are hard core GvGers.

From a PvE standpoint, what needs to happen is a large nerf to spirits, PvE only skills (particularly Ascan, SY, EVAS, Finish him, and YmlaD), and smaller nerfs to discord, AP, and ER. Accompany this with slight buffs to paragons and rangers, a change to BUH to make it give armor penetration (to help eles and other elemental damage users), and make it so that crit strikes only affects daggers. PvE would be so much better...

*lemming* · Nov 30, 2010, 03:10 AM // 03:10

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Originally Posted by Lanier

I am extremely inclined to disagree with you simply because this is probably the most arrogant thing I have seen posted... ever.

Well, I was trying harder than usual.

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Originally Posted by Lanier

However, I'v got to agree with the basic point you're making. A decent update is one that addresses metagame problems, and this is what the mesmer one did (for PvE). It made mesmers useful. I can definitely see how from a pvp standpoint, it was a "bad" update, as it overpowered mesmers quite a bit, but honestly, 3/4 (or more) of the gw population would disagree with you. The vast majority of the players are PvEers, and out of those that do PvP, I was under the impression that not many of them are hard core GvGers.

The problem is, it was possible to resolve that the PvE meta issue without introducing more problems to the PvP side. Judging from the feedback from Test Krewe members, the qualified PvP contingent's response to the entire mesmer update was that it would be disastrous.

ErrantVenture · Nov 30, 2010, 05:03 AM // 05:03

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Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol lemming, what if I asked "should we bring back VoD" or "should we bring back Aegis"?

Unsurprisingly, the TK has been contemplating and testing both of these changes for months xD

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Originally Posted by lemming

The problem is, it was possible to resolve that the PvE meta issue without introducing more problems to the PvP side. Judging from the feedback from Test Krewe members, the qualified PvP contingent's response to the entire mesmer update was that it would be disastrous.

I was still on the TK when the mesmer changes were pushed out. The PvP members of the TK are (for the most part) largely ignored by the developers. They design gamebreaking skills with pve in mind, are reluctant to split them for pvp, and it takes huge amount sof effort and coaxing on the part of the TK to convince designers to make reasonable changes to pvp skills.

betterjonjon · Nov 30, 2010, 05:41 AM // 05:41

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Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

Unsurprisingly, the TK has been contemplating and testing both of these changes for months xD

I was still on the TK when the mesmer changes were pushed out. The PvP members of the TK are (for the most part) largely ignored by the developers. They design gamebreaking skills with pve in mind, are reluctant to split them for pvp, and it takes huge amount sof effort and coaxing on the part of the TK to convince designers to make reasonable changes to pvp skills.

Its always saddens me when I hear this...it makes me cross my fingers and hope these people get fired at or around the time GW2 comes out so they can't dirty it in the same way.

Missing HB · Nov 30, 2010, 08:29 AM // 08:29

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Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Well why not get a job at Anet since you know exactly what skills are considered "decent" to be fixed. Sorry that these skill updates we have had this year, don't meet your expectations, and are therefore, not worth it. But are we getting skill updates? Yes. Are they the exact skills you want to be updated? No, but we are getting skill updates nonetheless.

You consider good job that people are still running perma sin in elite areas for months now ?
You consider good job that TA and HB were deleted to a format which is far less populated than ascalon academy?
I think there are by far more complaining threads here for every PvP format than love threads ( except when it comes for costumes ofc).

Since Lemming is core GvG'er and most PvP updates concern GvG only , i guess he's more exped than us to know if those updates are good or not. The only point there is why updates concern only GvG in fact , but whatever....

Mad Queen Malafide · Nov 30, 2010, 03:36 PM // 15:36

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Originally Posted by Missing HB

You consider good job that people are still running perma sin in elite areas for months now ?

So you want to be the one to nerf Shadow Form again, and anger every hardcore farmer out there? As much as I hate how overpowered perma is, you'd disappoint a lot of GW players if they could no longer do their favourite farm.

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Originally Posted by Missing HB

I think there are by far more complaining threads here for every PvP format than love threads ( except when it comes for costumes ofc).

There are always more complaints than compliments. For what ever reason. The internet is a big hateful bunch that whines and whines and whines, and everyone knows everything better than anyone else.

Missing HB · Dec 01, 2010, 09:14 AM // 09:14

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Originally Posted by Mad Queen Malafide

So you want to be the one to nerf Shadow Form again, and anger every hardcore farmer out there? As much as I hate how overpowered perma is, you'd disappoint a lot of GW players if they could no longer do their favourite farm.

I can't consider people have fun by farming the same place over and over 24/7 the same way. I mean , if it was a challenge even, if it was harder than it actually is ( i.e ursan time , which was clearly harder + much longer than perma do ).. but it's not the case at all.. Adding skeletons and dhuum only made it much harder for non perma teams and that is completly pathetic ....

To add stuff , i think these kind of farms changed a lot players mentality , turning whole game into farm mentality , which ruined PvP especially ( most players go there and are like : wtf ? only 200 factions a win and 1k500 luxon/5 wins needed for AB/RA? kk back to MQSC ) . Aswell you should just see how pathetic players are : " omfg 10 sec too long stupid noob " , " gg we run out of cons gg pay back stupid failer " , or i could go on with more....

Mad Queen Malafide · Dec 01, 2010, 10:05 AM // 10:05

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Originally Posted by Missing HB

I can't consider people have fun by farming the same place over and over 24/7 the same way. I mean , if it was a challenge even, if it was harder than it actually is ( i.e ursan time , which was clearly harder + much longer than perma do ).. but it's not the case at all.. Adding skeletons and dhuum only made it much harder for non perma teams and that is completly pathetic ....

To add stuff , i think these kind of farms changed a lot players mentality , turning whole game into farm mentality , which ruined PvP especially ( most players go there and are like : wtf ? only 200 factions a win and 1k500 luxon/5 wins needed for AB/RA? kk back to MQSC ) . Aswell you should just see how pathetic players are : " omfg 10 sec too long stupid noob " , " gg we run out of cons gg pay back stupid failer " , or i could go on with more....

But still, if you can't imagine people having fun farming, perhaps you should try to understand them before you nerf their favourite skill. There are plenty of people who enjoy farming. And I'm sure you would get a lot of people angry players that might leave the game if SF was nerfed yet again. You have to try and cater to everyone when balancing skills. Balancing isn't simply a matter of "Right, lets nerf SF into the ground, girls".

Elnino · Dec 01, 2010, 10:26 AM // 10:26

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Originally Posted by Mad Queen Malafide

But still, if you can't imagine people having fun farming, perhaps you should try to understand them before you nerf their favourite skill. There are plenty of people who enjoy farming. And I'm sure you would get a lot of people angry players that might leave the game if SF was nerfed yet again. You have to try and cater to everyone when balancing skills. Balancing isn't simply a matter of "Right, lets nerf SF into the ground, girls".

If it is a skill that should not have made it's way into the game in the first place then yes, it should die in a fire regardless if people liked it or not. People were farming before shadow form was around and they will continue after it is gone. Shadow form and a lot of other skills turned a large number of the pve community from people who would often think outside the box to overcome challenges to people who don't know the meaning of the word "challenge." The game isn't meant to be easy you know. . .

ogre_jd · Dec 01, 2010, 12:49 PM // 12:49

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Originally Posted by Elnino

Shadow form and a lot of other skills turned a large number of the pve community from people who would often think outside the box to overcome challenges to people who don't know the meaning of the word "challenge." The game isn't meant to be easy you know. . .

And for most people it isn't.